From Doing It All to Measurable, Scalable Growth for Law Firms

Steve Fretzin  [00:00]

Hey everybody, before we get to the show, really big announcement for you. This is one of the most important things I’ve done in nearly two decades of working exclusively in the legal industry. It is the be that lawyer community, and it’s officially live today. This is a global platform designed to help lawyers become rainmakers, grow their law practices and take control of their careers. And it’s built for individuals just like you who want more. And it’s also for law firms who want to bring real business development coaching and training to their teams with a strong return on investment. Inside you’re going to find a massive library of content, practical courses, live events and direct engagement with rainmakers from around the world who are there to answer your questions and help you grow. Membership is only 699, per lawyer. It discounts available for groups, and for a limited time, April 15 to April 30, you will get that deal as a founding member at that special rate I just mentioned, you have two weeks take action. Be that lawyer.com/community I’ll say it again. Be that lawyer.com/community to sign up today. Hope to see you there. And by the way, enjoy the show.

Narrator  [01:11]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode your host, author and lawyer coach. Steve Fretzin, we’ll take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.

Steve Fretzin  [01:33]

Hey everybody, welcome to the be that lawyer Podcast. I’m Steve Fretzin, and I’m so thrilled that you’re here. You guys know the show. Some people listen to it on long rides with their wives and upset them. Like Rob here was telling what’s right? Yeah, that’s okay. I, I don’t know. I think podcasts are like, the best thing that’s ever happened to long drives, but that’s just me.

Robin Saghian  [01:52]

Yeah. I mean, up until like, 3045, minutes, was like, please just put on some music,

Steve Fretzin  [01:57]

right, right? And then you hope the music corresponds. Like my son likes to listen this, like, serious heavy metal. And I’m trying to, like, relax when I’m driving, and so it’s hard to do that when the bass is kicking.

Robin Saghian  [02:06]

Well, for me, your voice relaxes me, so

Steve Fretzin  [02:09]

I listen to man, all right, my days made. My day’s made. I have a very that’s

Robin Saghian  [02:13]

why I never got married. Nobody tells me.

Steve Fretzin  [02:14]

Well, if you guys haven’t figured out yet that we have three unbelievable rainmakers and law firm founders and owners online with us. We’ll get to know them in a second. But as you all know, as longtime listeners, we always start off with our quote of the show. This one is not a stranger to this show, and it’s not a stranger to things that I say on a regular basis. And believe in, in my heart of hearts, that if you can’t measure it, you can’t manage it. A Peter Drucker, So gentlemen, welcome to the show. Thrilled that you’re here. And who would like to tell us why that is the quote of the show. Would like to jump in first on that? I’ll jump in.

Robin Saghian  [02:48]

Okay, yeah. I mean, ultimately, I think when we first started out, we struggled with a lot of kind of the delegating in the business stuff that I think a lot of lawyers and law firms struggle with at the beginning, and then I think as you just get to a certain point, and you hit a certain headcount in terms of, you know, staff and employees and lawyers, it just becomes very difficult to manage without actually measuring performance and measuring things. It just becomes impossible. I think we struggled with it for a little bit in the beginning, and we kind of got things going. We’re very good at keeping data and kind of looking at it at this point, but it was something that kind of was a pain point for us for a little bit.

Steve Fretzin  [03:27]

It’s interesting. Oh yeah, Edwin,

Edwin Saghian  [03:29]

can I add a quote that Rob says often in our meetings is, it’s like playing basketball without keeping score? Yeah, you all know the score. You’ll know if you’re

Steve Fretzin  [03:36]

winning or losing. Yeah, job. Any, any final thoughts on the time the measurables. I think it’s

Shahab Mossavar-Rahmani  [03:42]

critical, and I was probably the last to adopt it, just because I was so focused on the work. And once I did, it was absolutely revolutionary for how I manage critical

Steve Fretzin  [03:51]

I want to add to what you said, though, Edwin, because I agree that it’s like not keeping score. But there’s another problem that, like in business development, for example, it’s not just about keeping score, like, what your activity level is, but looking at how you’re converting. So like, if I’m shooting free throws, and then the today’s the day of the finals for the NCAA is tonight, right? So I’m shooting free throws at 50% and that’s not good for the team. Why am I not shooting higher level? And then what does it take for me to get to 80 90% and like, how do we can’t measure what we don’t manage. We can’t improve what we don’t measure. And so I think too many lawyers are running around not measuring things and maybe having the same year over and over again. So that kind of aligns, I think, with what you’re saying. You know, just the

Robin Saghian  [04:35]

Yes to elaborate on that, yeah, you’d be surprised as the how good everyone thinks they’re doing until you actually start keeping score. Yeah, that’s fair. That’s fair. Yeah, it puts things in their perspective, especially, you know, lawyers, you know, it’s once you start dying. These are your numbers compared to everybody else. They put a lot of things in their perspective. But before you do that, everyone thinks they’re winning.

Steve Fretzin  [04:57]

Yeah, I get that. I get that. Well, listen everybody. We’ve got the three founders of omega Law Group here, Shahab Rob and Edwin, to talk to us today and give us a little, a little bit of advice on partnerships. And I would acknowledge, did you guys ever hear my saying? What about partnerships like no sink, no ship sinks? Quite like a partnership? You guys ever hear that it’s a guy, it’s an oldie, but a goodie. All right. Job like that. Yeah, but it is hard. Partnerships are hard man, and there’s a lot of personalities and and a lot of people that have different ideas about things. How did you I don’t know who wants to jump in on this first, but how did you three come together to found a firm and to build it up like you have?

Shahab Mossavar-Rahmani  [05:37]

Yeah, I think I’ll start with that. I think this goes back to kind of how we met. Met at the end of law school through a friend, and just got to really like each other, like minded, get along, and then we all kind of went off and did different things. I was a public defender, originally doing criminal trials. Really enjoyed that, and then joined my wife’s sperm. And these guys just started out doing basically anything under the sun. And as we kind of did more pi work together. We realized there’s a lot of overlap, a lot of strategizing, and each of us kind of had a skill set that the other maybe didn’t like or didn’t want to do. And so over time, having those conversations, you’re like, Wow, this could actually work if we got together. And so the more we talked about it, the more we realized it made sense, and we made the call to join. It was something we went into eyes open, we kind of knew each other and our strengths. And I think it’s been a very, very good partnership.

Steve Fretzin  [06:27]

Yeah. Oh, Edwin, all right, jump in, buddy.

Edwin Saghian  [06:30]

Well, for I was there when Rob was born, so for me, it was kind of a built in partnership with him. We’ve we grew up together. We lived together until he got married, and I think from day one, we always knew that we were going to work together. So having that foundation, obviously, he’s my brother, and I know that adds a layer of complexity to it, but for us, I think we were so close in the way our parents raised us, was so close that it was easy. We always knew that this was going to be our path, and then Shahab kind of filled out the rest of what was missing, and he just kind of became the third brother, I guess, like so it’s a partnership, but it’s also friendship, and it has that foundation and that strength. So for us, this was inevitable. We always, since law school, wanted to work together. We tried to find ways to make that work along the way, including different variations of this, but when the time was right, it was like lightning in a bomb, and I think from there it was just forward,

Steve Fretzin  [07:26]

yeah, and I know it’s challenging, too, with three people that you have to make some major decisions when you’re building this thing up. How did you guys handle disagreements and where you know you have one way of thinking about it? Edwin Rob, you’ve got another job, another How do you guys like come to come up with decisions when you’ve got, you know, some pretty major you know, things you’ve got to accomplish.

Edwin Saghian  [07:49]

So I think it goes back to the foundation. If you have similar shared values, if you trust each other and you respect each other, disagreements are going to happen. So our disagreements, even the really, really big ones, are like, you know you’re wrong. Fu, I disagree. What do you want to have for lunch? Yeah, it’s that kind of disagree. But at the end of the day, you throw all the ideas in the middle, and whoever can convince the other two that their view is right. That’s the decision that we make, and we go with it. And you have to be able to pivot. And if something is wrong, if one of us is wrong, even though we decided to go that route, we’re open to changing our mind. And that, I think, is the most important thing. You have to have that shared value and vision of being adaptable, or being able to change, if you have to, and listen to each other, yeah, yeah.

Robin Saghian  [08:43]

I think a lot of it is just not having ego. Yeah, you know, you’re not always going to be right. You know, if there’s an issue, we meet about it, we debate about it, and we walk out of the room all in agreement on what we’re going to do. Okay, yeah, it’s, uh, we’re lucky that we’re an odd number and we get to vote on things, but ultimately, I think it’s just about not having an ego. You know, sometimes I’m wrong about things, sometimes Shabd wrong about things, sometimes Ed’s wrong about things. But ultimately, we get together, we make a decision, and we move forward as a unit.

Shahab Mossavar-Rahmani  [09:14]

I could just throw in one thing that’s spot on. I think sometimes it’s surprising I walk into a topic or a conversation. I’m like, I know this is right, and one of them says something, and I’m like, I’m definitely not right now, and I appreciate that they give me that perspective, because if you’re open and honest about it, and you don’t have that ego, you’re able to see someone else’s perspective and realize that’s a better idea. And that happens a lot. Are you guys

Steve Fretzin  [09:39]

this evolved with your significant others as much as you are with each other. That’s what I want to know. Well, it’s like, yeah, we listen and we we ask questions and we demonstrate empathy. Well, that’s

Edwin Saghian  [09:49]

good for No, they just do what other wives tell it to do.

Steve Fretzin  [09:52]

Happy wife, happy life. I get that too, but yeah, I find just just, I just sit there in absolute silence and nodding. Seems to work really well. And I’m just this incredible, and I do it with, you know, truthfulness, but it’s funny that you just that’s, you know, it’s not about solving it, right? Just have to listen to your partner. Listen to your partners. So listen, you guys have a story of starting something and building it and scaling. And, you know, some people can do it by just being the dominator in the room, like this, like the single, you know, managing partner that just dictates and is the dictator in that firm. You guys, have three of you, and you’ve been able to build and scale this. What’s been some of the secret sauce behind that?

Edwin Saghian  [10:32]

I think the secret sauce for us has been delegation of duties. I think each one of us recognizes our strengths and weaknesses and what we enjoyed doing and what we don’t enjoy. Like, you know, Rob is very task oriented. He’s very client facing. He’s very good at, you know, moving the ball forward very aggressively and very quickly. So he’s, he runs our pre litigation. He does, you know, the intakes, that’s what he’s good at. That’s what he’s always enjoyed doing. Shahab, like he said, he came from the public defender’s office, I think it was more trial litigation. He enjoys doing that, so he heads our litigation department. For me, I like to build things, so I do more of the operational, finance side of things. And I think everybody stays in their lane, and then when we have to, we join forces and do whatever we have to do. If we have to talk about cases, we’ll do that. It’s not like I sit back and I’m like, Don’t ever come to me about a case. It’s not like Rob and Shahab aren’t talking about cases all day every day. So I think for us, the secret sauce is we just happen to fall into those different duties, and you kind of like what we do and it works for us. I do these

Steve Fretzin  [11:44]

assessments, and I tested myself to find out, like, if I hire us like a chief marketing officer, who should that person be like behaviorally? And it was me, and I said, That’s not good. I don’t really need another me around. What I really need is someone. And so I took it again, and and it really said someone that’s more introverted, more organized, more, you know, like, can grind things through as a task master. In that, I was thinking, that’s exactly what I need, because I’m, I’m highly organized, but like, from a standpoint of what I want to do, I want to be, you know, the thought leader, and I want to be the person out in front, right talking with new clients and working deals and trying to help more lawyers, not in the minutia of the business and the marketing side. So I think, yeah, what you said there, Edwin is so incredibly important that we have to recognize what our skill sets are and what we enjoy, and then to work around with other people that have other, you know, different skill sets.

Edwin Saghian  [12:41]

I’ll also add in one of the things that I think is very important. And going back to your quote about sinking partnerships, I think shared values are very important, and for us, we’re very lucky, like I can go on a two week vacation and nobody’s being counted. You know, Shahab can work seven days a week for the entire two weeks that I’m not here. And he’ll never come to me after I come back from vacation and say, Hey, you were gone for two weeks. You better, like, show up at five in the morning, do whatever, you know. If anything, he comes back and he says, You deserved it. Take another week, you know. And then if I got to do what I have to do, I never come here at, you know, eight o’clock and I’m like, where’s Shahab at 801, why is he not here? You know? So I think it’s that shared value where it’s like you trust everybody to do what they’re supposed to do. And you know, if he works two days one week, and I work seven days one and whatever vice versa, it is what it is, we’re all moving in the right direction, and we have that foundation of trust.

Steve Fretzin  [13:37]

Hey, everybody. Steve Fretzin Here and@lawyer.com They don’t just market law firms. They help them grow from connecting millions of consumers to trusted lawyers to smarter intake and industry leading events, they’re building stronger connections across legal visibility, intake, events, growth. That’s lawyer.com Check them out today, with proven SEO and digital marketing strategies that drive actual clients to your firm. Rankings.io. Prides itself on proof, not promises. Mentality. The best firms hire rankings.io. When they want rankings, traffic and cases, other law firm marketing agencies can’t deliver, get more rankings, get cases and schedule a free consultation@rankings.io today. Hey everybody. It’s Steve Fretzin as the you know, I’m the host of the be that lawyer podcast, and if you’re serious about growing your law practice, let’s talk. I’ve coached hundreds of attorneys to build bigger books of business without selling, chasing or wasting time. This isn’t a sales pitch. It’s a real 30 minute strategy session to explore what’s possible for you in your practice, just head over to fretz.com and grab a time that works for you, and let’s make this your breakout year. Can I make an observation that might leak into a little bit of a different conversation? I think your shared values and your support for each other, my guess is that it leaks down meaning. That you guys have a very strong culture, because I think culture is represented from the top down, right? If you’ve got a real a hole running the show, right? And everything’s everybody else is in the dark, if the culture is terrible, right? You’ve got three people with shared positive values that care about each other and care about the business and everything. Is that the case? And if so, how does, how do you guys see your culture?

Robin Saghian  [15:23]

I think that I’ll jump in there. But I think that it really does trickle down into the staff compared to I mean, we have very little turnover. I know we our staff has been with us for a very long time. Most people come here. They stay here. We want to make sure that they have a career here, not just a job we’ve seen with a lot of other firms. There’s a tremendous amount of turnover. There’s people just jumping from firm to firm. We don’t have that issue because of the culture. That’s something that we invested a lot of time and energy on. We want to make sure that that our staff is here for a long time. We put a lot of effort into training them. We put a lot of effort into the culture, and it’s 100% comes from top down. You cannot have you cannot have that a different culture above and have it. You know, show below that.

Shahab Mossavar-Rahmani  [16:12]

It doesn’t work. I could also throw in, think it’s really important to practice what you preach like you have a problematic client or a difficult situation, you lead by example. You show people how to handle that. And it comes back to when we look to hire people. We want to, you know, enjoy the people we work with. We want people to fit that culture. So the other important part about it is bringing the right people in. You know, you can be very talented, but if you don’t fit the culture, it’s not going to work. And so, you know, our philosophy is, if you take care of the people that work with you, they’ll take care of the clients. And that really has proven to be true.

Edwin Saghian  [16:47]

I think we the only thing I’ll add is, I think we decided very early on, even from employee number one, is that we didn’t want to come to work and see unhappy people. They just don’t want to do that. I don’t want to walk in and look at, you know, somebody who works here, and know that they’re miserable being and I think that is something that you have somewhat of control over, and how you treat them, how you it’s not only what we need from them, it’s what are they getting from us as well. And I think that’s our philosophy, is, how do we invest in you? Because you’re investing in us as well.

Steve Fretzin  [17:21]

Yeah, really, really great. Is there one or two things that you would be willing to share, in addition to your shared values and training and just having that great culture, things that you do that make people feel special, that other lawyers listening maybe aren’t doing, where they could say, hey, you know what? These three guys have this incredibly successful firm. They’re doing one or two things that I can actually execute on and do for my firm that would make us our culture stronger. Anything specific that you guys do, that you could share that would be helpful. One thing that comes to mind,

Shahab Mossavar-Rahmani  [17:54]

I can’t emphasize how important this is, at least for me, is giving honest feedback. So if someone is struggling with something, or they’re not the right fit. Got to have that dialog. Ed always says conflict is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as you’re able to have it open and honest and get that dialog going. You know, that person may not be happy in that role, or they may just be overwhelmed. They need to have a conversation about what’s going on and how we can tweak it so honest feedback and having clear accountability, I think, are big things that help people want to stay because they’re being heard and changes can be made

Edwin Saghian  [18:30]

if they need to be made. I think Shahab, what he said, is what I would what I would say is conflict is not bad. Unresolved conflict is bad. So, you know, we we have, obviously, you have this many employees, you have conflict that comes up between employees, between management and employees. And if you address things honestly, and if you address the conflict without beating around the bush, I think that’s where conflict gets resolved, and you come out stronger. I think what messes people up is they try to avoid conflict. Oh, this employee’s mad at me about XYZ. Let me try to go around it. I don’t want to talk about it. They’re going to get more upset if I tell them what I really feel. And it’s like, no, you have to be honest. People, I think, appreciate honesty. And when you’re not honest and you you’re not transparent, and you don’t rip that band aid off. It’s just gonna get worse. And resentment builds

Shahab Mossavar-Rahmani  [19:25]

that also starts with us. I mean, I’ve had moments where they’ve been honest with me about something. I’m like, You know what? You’re right? I wasn’t seeing it that way. I was kind of, you know, hating the ground or whatever it is, and when, when they’re able to call you out, you have that trust and that relationship to to know that it’s coming from a good place, and it’s to make the business better. You take that feedback in because, you know, there’s no mal intent there. The feedback is to make you a better person, a better manager, a better attorney, what have you. So I think that does also funky plop down.

Robin Saghian  [19:54]

If I could add something a little more specifically there, I think that people, especially. Really. Employees want structure. They want feedback. They want clear accountability. They want to know exactly what their job is and exactly what they’re supposed to do and exactly what their KPIs and goals. So we dedicate a lot of time to providing structure where, I think most firms just, you know, hire people. Here’s your desk, here’s 40 files. Figure it out, work on it. We have a lot of structure. We have SOPs, we have KPIs. We have goals. We we have regular meetings about performance. We’re very transparent about what we expect from the employees and people. Really, when you put people in it, in that environment, that want to work and want to succeed, they thrive. And I think a lot of firms are missing that.

Steve Fretzin  [20:49]

Yeah, I love everything. You guys just said, it’s, it’s really, really fantastic. And you know, when you have that, when you have that solid culture, everything can work and in the feedback and and just how you guys have an open and honest air in the in the room, I think that’s that’s critical. That’s is there, is there some advice that you could give to lawyers as the founders, about what’s important if somebody is interested in scaling a solo or someone that has four or five people working right now that says, I really want to scale this up to 3040, 50, 100 200 people. What? What advice would you give them that could be their mistakes you’ve made, or that could just be direct advice that really helped you guys grow find two

Edwin Saghian  [21:35]

great partners and

Steve Fretzin  [21:37]

yes, is it about finding the right people, though? Is it just like you just keep adding quality people along the way. Are there? Is it? Is it, is

Shahab Mossavar-Rahmani  [21:46]

Yeah, I think it’s also you nailed it. It’s never too early to invest in systems. I think one of the mistakes that we made early on is trying to do everything ourselves in our respective roles. Yeah, and that became an anchor at some point, because I can be the best litigator, but I can’t serve as many clients if I’m doing all the work. So I think it’s really important to have systems in place, like Rob said, KPIs, where you’re there’s clear structure, there’s clear defined job duties, just something as simple as like, what are you here to do every day? Yeah, and what is on your plate and what is not? And if you’re able to do that early enough, it helps you scale much faster than trying to do as much as you can yourself, and then eventually creating it. Well, you

Steve Fretzin  [22:24]

got but real quick, Rob, you got two things there. You just said, Shahab. Shahab is, one is that you’ve got systems in place so that you really know how everyone knows what everyone’s job is and how things are running. And then the second part of is, I think that you, you then have the feedback of what that of what allows you to figure out is somebody a fit or not a fit, and how you can develop them. I love that. Rob, yeah,

Robin Saghian  [22:48]

I think a mistake that a lot of attorneys make is they don’t focus on the business side of the firm. They’re just kind of focused on the law side. You have to spend time on on the business operation side. You have to spend time on the culture. It’s very important. And operating a 10 person firm is a very different animal than operating 50 person firm, and it’s a different animal than operating 100 person for and it’s a different animal than operating a 300 person for, right? I think a lot of attorneys, the mistake they make is they think that, they think that they assume that people know what they’re supposed to do, and they assume that just because it’s in their head that they should know, right? So you just have to set clear expectations. You have to communicate very clearly to people. You can’t just hire people, give them a desk, draw 40 files on their desk and say, figure it out. I’ll come see you six months. That’s not, you know, that’s, that’s not going to work, especially when you’re a bigger firm, okay? And I think a lot of attorneys are smart, and I think that they think everyone else is as smart as them, and, you know, it’s, it’s, unfortunately, not the case. You have to be very clear. You have to set clear guidelines, and you have to communicate clearly, and you have a feedback loop. Nice, yeah.

Edwin Saghian  [24:02]

Edwin, I think it’s cliche, but I think you have to learn how to cut your losses if something isn’t working. I think especially when you’re a five person firm and where you’re starting out, if you do something and it kind of works 75% or 64 you just keep limping along with it, whether it’s an employee that doesn’t necessarily share your values or isn’t, you know, doesn’t want to be there, but you know, they’re they get the paycheck, and they just stay there, and it kind of gets you most of the way there, but you you’re hamstringing yourself to find the right person invest the time, especially Early on, because the right person, and this has happened so many times, even even in positions that didn’t exist in a firm that now we’ve created for the first time, when you end up putting the right person in that role, it’s like a light bulb. You’re like, wow, I didn’t know that it could be that easy. Yeah. I didn’t know that this person existed. It seemed like a dream. So invest in that. It’s there people. Are there people that share your values, people that can do things better than you can? Are there? Find them.

Steve Fretzin  [25:11]

The interesting thing too is that it all kind of works in a circular fashion. From a standpoint, when you have a good culture, you bring in the right people, and then they stay. And then that then, like, attracts the right people, more of the right people to you, because you’ve built with the right people, the right systems, right culture. Now, like, I want to come work for you guys. I can’t do that right now. But like, you know, I meet a lot of law firm owners, and I’m like, yeah, these maybe not. And then in other case, like you guys, I’m like, yeah, when do I start? How do I apply Wonderful, wonderful. All right, well, we have one, we have time for one big thing. Normally, it’s name’s big mistake. But this is going to be entitled The founders. Big mistake. Who would like to jump in with the founders? Big mistake? I’ll start

Shahab Mossavar-Rahmani  [25:48]

with that one I mentioned a little bit earlier. I think it’s goes back to trying to do it all yourself. I think when you’re a much smaller firm, you kind of have to do that out of necessity. But as you grow that was the hardest thing for me to let go of was let me look at every Discovery set, let me make sure I’m in every deposition. And it’s just not sustainable, and at some point it actually hurts you, because it stunts the growth if you’re trying to keep control over everything. So that was a big problem for me. Yeah, Rob, I

Robin Saghian  [26:14]

think that was a problem for all of us. I think you know, when you first start out and you’re just, you know, you’re a four or five person firm. You’re wearing multiple different hats, you know, fast forward five years. Fast forward 10 years, and you’re still doing things that maybe you shouldn’t be doing. Maybe, you know, maybe you shouldn’t be reading every Discovery set that’s going up, because ultimately, then it’s handicapping you on doing bigger bigger, you know, picture items. So I think the biggest mistake is not delegating and not delegating and not delegating earlier on. And ultimately, I think, learning to let go and finding the right people to let go to people that you trust.

Steve Fretzin  [26:50]

Yeah, awesome. And Edwin, you get the last word on this.

Edwin Saghian  [26:53]

It’s exactly what they said, I think. And it’s hard when you’re in it. I was probably on my hands and knees setting up computers way longer than I should have been doing. You know, I’ve set up hundreds of computers when I should have probably not done that. You know, he’s doing the discovery sets. I just, you know, when me and my brother started our firm, we did everything. So you kind of get used to it, because we would literally drive down to the courthouse to file documents. We would serve people ourselves physically. So it’s like you get kind of get used to that, yeah? And that just sticks with you. And then it’s hard, I think, for a lot of entrepreneurs and and, you know, lawyers too, to just sit there and let go and say, somebody else can set that computer up. Let me go figure out how to do this better. Yeah, all right,

Steve Fretzin  [27:37]

well, I have a final, final, sorry for

Robin Saghian  [27:39]

that, is, yeah. I think the best quote for that is, when you’re in the bottle,

Steve Fretzin  [27:42]

you can’t delete a label from inside the bottle. Yeah, yeah.

Robin Saghian  [27:45]

So I think ultimately, if you want to succeed, if you want to scale fast, you got to come outside the bottle and you got to look and you got to say, hey, we’re not a five person firm anymore. We’re not a 10 person firm anymore. It doesn’t make sense to do this, or the way that

Steve Fretzin  [27:59]

we were doing it. Well, maybe a more important question, Rob for you, is, is this? Is this an episode that your wife will allow you to listen to in a car with her? She was

Robin Saghian  [28:07]

actually very excited when I told her that I was gonna be on your show.

Steve Fretzin  [28:10]

Okay. All right, good to know. All right. Well, listen, you guys are in for a treat. I have a huge announcement to make that’s never, never been heard before. I’m announcing that the be that lawyer community is now live and active. And if you go to our website, be that lawyer.com you will see a lot about it. Essentially, we have taken all of my content, podcasts, videos, articles, books, everything, courses on business development and marketing, we put it all on this community. We’re going to add a ton more. We’ve got all of our resources there. We’ve got live events, and most importantly, as rainmakers, or budding rainmakers, you can network and communicate with other rainmakers in our private community. So that is now live. We’re very excited about it, so check that out. And also want to take a moment to thank our wonderful sponsors. We’ve got lawyer.com Lex, reception and rankings, io and pimcon, all great sponsors of the show. Gentlemen, thank you so much. How do we get in touch with people? Want to say, Listen, I just heard the greatest interview of all time, and I want to work for this firm. How do they who they how do they reach you?

Robin Saghian  [29:13]

They can go on our website, omega law.com and they can find us

Steve Fretzin  [29:16]

over there. That’s it. And then we’ll, of course, have all the show notes as well. Does that sound good for you guys? Wonderful gentlemen. Thank you. It has been such an absolute pleasure. I can’t recall interviewing, you know, one or three founding partners that had such incredible integrity and culture and vision and just kind of an incredible feeling of collaboration. And so again, I that’s why I’m feeling a lot of a lot of juice for you guys, because it’s like, you know, this sounds like an incredible law firm you’ve created and also an incredible place for people to come and work. So thanks for coming on the show and sharing your wisdom. Very, very good

Shahab Mossavar-Rahmani  [29:51]

for having us. Thank you.

Edwin Saghian  [29:52]

Thanks, Steve, yeah, thank you. Congratulations on the community.

Steve Fretzin  [29:55]

All right, thank you. All right. My first congratulations on the community. Everybody. Check it out. Be that lawyer.com check out our community page and see what it’s all about. My goal, for every lawyer that’s out there that didn’t learn this stuff in law school, to help you be that lawyer, confident, organized in a skilled Rainmaker. That’s the goal, be well and safe, everybody, and we will talk again very soon.

Narrator  [30:20]

Thanks for listening to be that loyal, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fretzin.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends for more information and important links about today’s episode. Check out today’s show notes.